Chris Bright 0:06
Welcome to the thinking church podcast with me, Chris Bright. Every week, I'll be speaking with a church leader about ministry strategy and getting to grips with not just what they do, but the thinking behind why they do it. So without further ado, let's get on with the show. Well, my guest this week is Jessica Bealer. Jessica has been leading children's ministry for 17 years, including five years overseeing standards, systems, staffing and atmosphere for the children's programmes of elevation church. She's overseeing the launch of nearly 20 locations, and is considered a specialist in the kidmin multi site area. Jessica is married to Frank and together they are the founders of family ministry dot church. I love that website. Definitely check it out. Jess is also the author of don't quit, which I have here. And and you wrote this along with Gina McLean. And I'm I just read this book. I've got it last week, and I read it in pretty much one sitting. Fantastic. So I highly recommend it. And I'll put a link in the show notes to it. Jess, it's great to see you today. How are you doing?
Jessica Bealer 1:20
I'm doing great. I'm so excited to be here with you and to be here with the UK. And it's awesome. Like I'm really excited to do this.
Chris Bright 1:28
Cool. It's great to have you. And today we're going to be talking all about volunteering and volunteers. And let's face here, we all need more volunteers. I think I've never heard of a church that says yeah, we're fine for volunteers. Jessica. So in the UK, all of our COVID restrictions have been lifted now obviously COVID still around. But the country is starting to get back some semblance of normality. And I hear many stories of churches that have lost a lot of volunteers over COVID What do you think's contributed to that kind of drop off of volunteering?
Jessica Bealer 2:06
Yeah. So I mean, it's I think it's probably like several different things. And just to throw some numbers at you, I don't know what it is in the UK. But in the US, right now, even the most successful churches are seeing about 40% of their volunteer base rate engaged. And that's a that's a high number. And so I mean, I think most churches are around 25%. And so I mean, yeah, we're, we're operating at less than 50% of our volunteer base. But even in the US, like, things are starting to get back to normal. I mean, the virus is not going anywhere right now. But we are finding some levels of normalcy. And so you would think all people coming back to the buildings, right? They're coming back in person that are volunteers, but also step up, but I think there's lots of reasons why they haven't, I think, I do think that there's a little bit of fear still, I mean, it's one thing to come to church with a mask on, or to sit, you know, three, six feet apart from somebody than it is to interact with dozens or, you know, larger churches, hundreds of families and kids and be you know, exposed. So I think there is some kind of level of fear but I also think that people really let reprioritize their life during lockdown in during quarantine. And they just, you know, I like spending that time with my kids on Sunday. And, you know, I like you know, tuning in for an hour, we did a really good job of convincing people, that church was still church online. And like, I'm not saying it's not but like we were all forced to say this really is still church, we still are a body of believers. You know, you can get everything that you you know, that you had before you can get it online, we did a really good job of legitimising that people believed us. And so now, you know, I think that we are just trying to almost like, retro actively say, yes, that is church, but it's better back in person, cuz I ain't, and we've just, we've got an uphill battle on our hands, I think. And the other thing, too, that I do believe is in that whole reprioritizing thing. It wasn't as if people weren't giving of themselves, it was honestly one of the most generous times right, we heard it all over the news, where people were, you know, giving supplies to people who were struggling or you know, donations were even giving in the church didn't go down the way that we anticipated it to go down. So people were still living generous lifestyles, they were still doing outreach, they were still making a difference. And so I think that a lot of times in their mind, they have replaced servanthood with generosity, and they're not the same thing. And so and but, but that is something else that we're gonna have to overcome right now. So I think there's probably a few different reasons why they're coming back. But I do want to just say this, when we talk about volunteerism, it's not just about helping us execute our ministry on the weekends. That is the byproduct of it. But I genuinely believe and I think you probably agree that the best thing for any individual would be to serve in the local in the local church. Like that's what's For them as a person, they find tribe they find camaraderie, they find purpose, they find impact in our relationships. Like there's such good things that come out of serving in the local church. And so the byproduct is yet helps us execute our ministry on the weekends. But genuinely, that's what's best for the individual as well. So when we take that perspective of it, it can kind of give us some motivation and some excitement to re engage this volunteer base.
Chris Bright 5:24
Yeah, you're absolutely right. In that sense, for my own personal story, I've been volunteering at church, as long as I've been able to volunteer at a church and, you know, that sense of team, that sense of fulfilment, you know, I, I now get to do this as you know, ministry as a job and a lifestyle, but first and foremost, I'm still you know, a volunteer, and that you still get that sense of team. And I think it's a thing we talk about a lot about in thinking church, is how you disciple people, and serving is such a massive part of the discipleship process and how you grow someone. It's not just about Yeah, how do we, you know, how do we welcome all the people to church? Or how do we put on you know, the worship or the, you know, the programme is first and foremost for that person's benefit? Because actually that Yeah, it does something in you, when you serve, you get to get outside of yourself. I yeah, I absolutely agree. on that one, I'd love to pick up on maybe this something that's been happening before COVID. I definitely saw it before COVID, I'm definitely still seeing it. Now. When we're kind of going we're nearly through it or kind of through it is that we so I see a lot of volunteers who suddenly get like, they're seemingly really engaged and like really up for it. And they want to serve on everything they might serve on like two or three teams, and suddenly they've, they're saying yes to everything. And then suddenly, they're quitting. They saying they're burnt out, they just overcome, you know, over and over committed. It feels like it's an ongoing cycle. And I don't know how to stop how do we stop that cycle? Do you think because I think this is a problem that we're gonna have to face. And, and I think maybe this is contributing to that thing in code, you know, that COVID has brought around where people are going, ah, actually, I felt burnt out. And, you know, in that sense, I don't want to do that again, but it seems like there's a cycle that's been happening.
Jessica Bealer 7:23
Yes, I agree. And, and I do agree that it was happening pre COVID, I think, post COVID it's probably going to be something that's that we're dealing with, you know, in even more intensity. But I will say this, I am very hesitant to tell people like to tell them that they shouldn't serve so much I because I feel like that if I said, If I say no to them, like Don't say no to them that I'm you know, I'm saying no to their blessing. Um, so I'm really hesitant to say like, No, don't do too much. And I think most people are as well. Because if you've got a volunteer who's super active, they're helping you execute your ministry and be more impactful and to like, so we're all a little hesitant to do it at the same time. It is super frustrating when you've got someone that is a rock star volunteer, and then all of a sudden, they're gone. And then you know, like, what did I do? What could I have done? So I do think there are a couple things that we need to keep in mind just for longevity sake, sake of volunteers. The first one is that the sacrifices should never outweigh the benefits. And I think a lot of times we get into situations with volunteers where whether we've asked them to step up and do more, or they just volunteered to do it. At some point, the sacrifice becomes greater than the benefit. And then they begin that's when burnout really starts to set in. Now I'm not saying that that means that every day has to every time every service experience everyday has to be a stellar experience with no problems, no issues. That's not what I'm saying. And I'm not even saying like the benefits, I'm not saying like monetary benefits, or like presence or all out, I mean, none of that. I'm really talking about fulfilment, impact, purpose, clarity, all those kinds of things mission, those things are intangible, but at the same time, if you feel like you are making a difference, then you'll go to the ends of the earth. I have a quote in the book that you referenced that says that people want to be called something significant. Maybe if they're not stepping up, it's because they haven't called them since you haven't called them something significant. So making sure even at the Y that you are presenting the why behind the what is really important. But how do we do that? I do think we're going to get into this a little bit later. But I do think that appreciation is key. And not just appreciation like appreciating your whole team as a whole. But as individuals, I think it's super important that every individual in your ministry feels known and loved and appreciated. And so I do think that appreciation is probably your biggest weapon against burnout. Because if you feel close to someone, if you feel appreciated, if you feel honoured, you're much less likely to cut and run. And so I do think that like appreciation is key. I also think that ownership is key as well. Because just because you you've tasked someone to do something or you ask them to step into a role or to take over an initiative, whatever it may be, just because you ask them doesn't mean that that's where that needs to end, a lot of times there's greater vision, there's a better way to do it, there's a better solution. And so when people feel ownership of something, it almost like Siemens into their heart, like, this is who I am like, and this is my calling. And people buy in at a higher level. And so it's really important that we do have clarity that they do understand that you know what it is that they're supposed to do, they also need to feel appreciated, and they need to have ownership of their ministry so that they can put out fires, like I think if we do those things, we are likely to keep them up. Now, I will say this, that does still doesn't mean even if you do all the things that everyone's gonna stick around forever, it's just not gonna happen. I this is gonna probably sound cold, but I want you to just to go with me for just for just a minute, I remember there was early on in my experience with elevation, I had a key leader, she was like one of my right hands, and a good friend. And she kind of stepped away from the Ministry, she had some stuff going on in her personal life. But in my mind, I was like, I would support you through all that I'll be if you need time out, like I just was, I couldn't understand why she was just stepping away for the ministry. And I remember talking to Pastor Steven about it, you know, like a ministry leaders meeting. And he said, he said this statement and it sounds a little cold, but it's really it's really not very truthful. He said, a lot of times God created you know, God brings people into our lives for seasons and their scaffolding and like what is scaffolding scaffolding you put up so that you can build the building so that you can accomplish the work but then at some point, the scaffolding has to come down and you have to move on you have to get on with ministry? And he was like but you needed that scaffolding to be able to do the work for that season. And so it was really I was like wow, maybe that maybe I'm missing maybe God just resourced me for a season with this incredible leader and now I'm called to go and recruit other leaders that you know, to help backfill that position but it doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault Now sometimes we are at fault if we don't take care of our leaders but just because someone walks away from you doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault. Can we do things that decrease that of course we can appreciate them offer clarity give ownership those types of things but ultimately at the end of the day just remember that the sacrifices can't outweigh the benefits if they do and then on a regular basis you're gonna have people walking away from your ministry
Chris Bright 12:28
yeah I love that thought from from Pastor Steven that you get some people that are a bit like scaffolding and I think probably what sometimes you think was when you know volunteer joins the ministry it's like they're a brick you know, and they're gonna be there forever
Jessica Bealer 12:44
It's not reality.
Chris Bright 12:45
No Yeah. And yeah, it's it's it's just not the you know, the reality in in most other industries as well, you know, you know, take out of a ministry context and you know, not everyone is around forever everyone's got the people who got not just busy lives, but you know, that work can take them all sorts of different places and and i think it allows you to be a bit more open handed with that volunteer and go, okay, like God, however you want me to, you know, however, like you, whatever uses you've got for them at this time. That's great. And, and it's not about what I want for them is what, what You want for them, and just trust that to God, I think that's a really important thing. But that does lead me on to a thought, which is, okay, so to get to that point, we've got to get volunteers in the first place. And I think like I said at the beginning, that there's no church in the world that ever feels like they've got enough volunteers. But I often don't think that many churches spend a lot of time thinking about how to recruit, you know, they might just say, Oh, well, we'll put out an announcement on a Sunday morning and the notices, and obviously no one listens to those anyway. And so what have you found that's been a really effective way to recruit, invite new volunteers to join the ministry to join new teams and things like that?
Jessica Bealer 14:05
Yeah. So I want to start by just saying that onboarding and recruiting are very different things. A lot of times churches will call recruiting, onboarding and onboarding, recruiting. They are two very different things. Your onboarding process is your logistical process of how when someone raises their hand and says, I want to serve to the point where they are happily settled on a thriving healthy team like that is on that's the onboarding, but that's a process. Okay, so. So I mean, it is the logistics of how we actually get them on these teams. Recruiting has to be a strategy. I mean, it has to be a constant strategy. When I go to when I'm talking about recruiting and volunteers at conferences, and it's funny, I have five conferences booked right now and every single conference I'm talking about volunteers, for clearly this is a need right now. But when I go to them, I will. Typically I'll say something along the lines of how many of you all are sitting here because at some point at you know in your life, somebody asks you to And do something. And every single person in the room raises their hand, right? Because that's how we all got there. Somebody said, Hey, could you do this for me, and we lead well, or we made mistakes, and we grew from it. And then we lead well, and then we were given more responsibility. And then at some point, we're off. Now we're sitting in a conference filled with, you know, high level lay leadership or staff leadership. And so like, we all know that there's this power in asking people, and typically like, like, senior pastors will say, like, you just need to ask people, and they're saying this to their staff, their staff members, or those high level leaders, and they'll just ask them, the problem is, is that if you are leading at that level on any given weekend, which is typically when our services are another, some throughout the week, but most of the time, our recruiting opportunities come on the weekend, if you're leaving at that high level, it's not as if you have, you know, two 330 minute, you know, pockets of time to have recruiting conversations, it's not just convenient for you. And you know, it's and then and then if you try to call during the week, it feels awkward. It's just weird, right? And so it's not like we have a lot of time before leading at that high level. And so what I've always tried to convey is that you should not be the only recruiter on for your ministry. Like if you're the only person that's having these recruiting conversations, then we're missing the mark here, because really, like recruiting should happen one on one between daughter and and mom, and you know, neighbour and co worker, and spouse, and like there should be all these conversations that are happening. The problem with it, and this is where I've run into obstacle after obstacle is, if I do it, I can mean I can be super inspirational and go in and be like, everybody needs to be a recruiter. Everybody in the room? Well, most of the people in the room may try to have a recruiting conversation, and it doesn't go well. Because it's awkward. They don't know exactly what to say. It's not like recruiting is just built into our DNA. And then when it doesn't go well, or the person says no, or they avoid them in the hallways of the church, because they don't want us there, then we don't try again. And then it's over. Like the initiative that you know that like robbery, you got this you can you can recruit. So I find that we have to teach our people how to have recruiting conversation. So just like with anything else, like we have to have a system for it, we have to, we have to call it out, we have to have a name for it. And so I will typically do a recruiting conversation training. Anytime that I'm coming into coach or consult the church, I'll say, Hey, we need more volunteers than we need to teach our current volunteers how to recruit because they don't know how nine out of 10 people are not comfortable recruiting. And so I kind of just have this formula that is make a friend make an ask make a challenge. It's really simple. Make a friend is easy, right? Let's just getting to know people make a friend. And how do you know if you're at the level to move on to the next one? If you can talk to them about something beyond the weekend experience? Beyond How was your week? If you can say something along the lines of how did your son do his baseball game? Or you know how, how is your mom feeling? I know she's not been doing? Well, how is she if you met that level, where you can go beyond the weekend, then it's time to go to the next step, which is making ask so make a friend first make an ask the ask is not to volunteer, the ask is to pray about volunteering, because people will turn you down to volunteering, Oh, it's such a busy season, you know, like, you know, because they haven't had time to think about it, to pray about it to consider the impact that they could have. And so I will coach people to just say, Hey, would you mind and explain, you know, make sure that you explain like every you know, every week I talked to you and you were just so warm and bubbly, you will be such a great asset to the team that I'm on. Would you consider praying for the next two weeks about volunteering on my team? I have never in all the years that I've been doing this training ever had anyone say no. Like, no one's ever No, I'm not going to pray. You know, like, of course, they're going to pray. And so they'll say, Oh, okay. And then you follow up with them. Two weeks later, you follow up with them? And you say, you know, hey, I've been praying for you. I know you've been praying about it. What has God been saying to you in your prayer time about serving on my team. And that's the challenge. So so like, you make the friend and then you make the ask, which is to pray about serving. And then you make the challenge, which is actually challenging people to step up there. Again, I've never had anyone say God told me not to serve, they might have a reason you know, my mom is really sick and I need to be home with her or, you know, something just happened to my family, we have a crisis or I'm sick or it's really busy, I just got a new job, whatever, they may have a reason. But now you know the obstacle that you're up against. And so now you can kind of make a plan to help them and pray for them and to be there for them to overcome the obstacles so that you can then follow up with them. Because if we genuinely believe that what's best for people to is to serve in the local church, then it's not just a one time ask it's helping them transition into a lifestyle of servitude. servanthood. So make a friend, make that make an ask and make a challenge. That's the training that I will typically do if we will get all of our volunteers having these recruiting conversations. Then we could have 10 1530 100 recruiting conversation that's going to do a lot more than the few minutes that you can give on Sunday having a conversation with a single individual.
Chris Bright 20:07
Yeah, I love the idea because, you know, who better to, you know, if you want someone to join, you know, the, the Guest Services team, someone that's on it, and is passionate about it. And that's, you know, they are such a great person to be able to say, this is what it's like, this is what we do, this is how it works. And, and this is why we're making a difference. And it can be really hard for that to be done. Just you know, and especially, you know, if it's only ever down to the leader, there's so there is so little time to do that. And you know, you're normally kind of running here there in every way to sort things and minds focused on getting stuff done, to be able to have a conversation with someone is really, really difficult. But to have someone that's, that's, you know, actively looking, okay, I want to help get people on, on team and and I'm, I'm able to do that. That's a really, that's a massive help. And I think that churches can really do that. Well. A quick question, how would you, would you How would you systematise the kind of recruitment for a Sunday? would you would you recommend sending people to one singular place? Or what what's the best way that you you found that you know, if to get that on, you know, if someone wants to serve, you know, they, they're there on a Sunday think, Oh, well, you know, I want to I want to serve? Would you send them to one place? Or would you send them to? How does that work?
Jessica Bealer 21:25
Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's just lots of different ways to do it effectively. But you do. I mean, I think the key is, what you said is to have the process to have the plan. And even with your volunteers, if you're teaching them how to have these recruiting conversations, and the person says, You know what, I have been praying about it, and I'd be interested in at least getting some more information. Okay, what then if your volunteer doesn't know what to instruct the person to do next, then you may lose them before you actually even begin the onboarding process. So you have to have a plan, I do have a couple of just like best practices. So I do think that we should talk about volunteers in front of the stage. And it's not the thing is that's planting the seed, they're not most people, you every once in a while, you'll get somebody that comes if you make an announcement, they'll go, but you're gonna have one or two people, right that go. And then they may or may not show up to your volunteer training or whatever it may be. But that's where we plan to see that sets us up for success for these conversations. So one of the things that I like to do is during that, during that when we're planting the seed during that, that talking point from the stage, from the platform, from the pulpit, whatever you call it, during that conference, where we tell them where to go. And it's not just that we tell them where to go. But we say whoever is doing that, that presentation, they say, meet me in the lobby at the Guest Services Desk, at the black tent, at the flag, whatever it is that you have them going to meet me because they may or may not give up. Like if they go out there and they just instantly don't see where they're supposed to go, then they may give up and just walk to their car and leave and now you've lost the opportunity. But if they can see a person, the person that just told me about volunteering on the stage, I can see them in the lobby, now I can go directly to that person, I know where to go. So that's a little trick. It's just a more personal way to get people to actually follow through with it. The other thing too is if you are planting that seed on a weekly basis, so that elevation we used to have this thing that we would say I was one of them, I was online campus pastor first season and I did talking points as well. And every single Sunday, we said pretty much the same thing, maybe a little variance, but pretty much we said the same thing. If you're interested in connecting here, there's two main ways sign up for a small group or sign up just serve. How do you do that you go to the black tin, and that was pretty much it like but we said that every single week. So if you came for 234 Sundays in a row, or even any time, it didn't really matter if even if it wasn't in a row, you were going to hear that. So when you expressed interest, you knew where to go. I think that's important, but we have to talk about it on a really frequent basis. The other thing is that during this training this make a friend make an ask me the challenge, you have to tell the volunteer what the next step is. So you can say, you know, hey, here is, you know, here's a QR code that they can scan, you can keep it on your phone, or here's a handout that you can give them. I was at a church this past weekend and they are just killing it when it comes to communicating how to take that next step in outside of all of their This is in the children's ministry area, and then student ministry area as well. But as sort of all of their rooms they had a little just a clear acrylic thing that was like What would it look like if I served in nursery? What would it look like if I served in sixth grade small group. And you could take one of those there was a QR code on there that you could just, you know, take a picture of or you would take you directly to the link and you could sign up right then or there's a paper copy on the back, you could flip the card over you could sign up and turn it into like the offering box in the foyer. There's a lot of different ways. So the key though, there's not a there's not a magic pill. The key is that everybody knows what the next step is, and it's fully communicated and that's clear. I will say that you do need to when it comes to the actual onboarding Get starting that onboarding process, you do need to have time parameters. So this first step needs to happen within 24 hours of having that recruiting conversation. The second step which is following up with them needs to happen within 48 hours. within one week, we need to have their background check, you know, started or whatever it may be, you have to have parameters so that everybody is going in the same direction. I find a lot of times at churches, onboarding when after we do the recruiting, we move to onboarding. onboarding is not systemized. And so what ends up happening is someone goes to a desk somewhere and they say I'm interested in serving in creative or in tech team or whatever it may be. And the person's like, Okay, great, I'll get you with that ministry leader. And then there's an email sent a few days later, somebody may call may may follow up, but the process to onboard them is different for every different department. And so and that's going to mean if you don't have a systemized process, and the level of excellence is going to vary depending on the level of excellence that that individual is pursuing. So it's really important that you do have the process laid out and that everyone you're encouraging to recruit knows.
Chris Bright 26:15
Well, thank you so much for listening to this week's podcast. This is only halfway through the podcast, and you can listen to the full conversation by joining our members podcast, just go to our website, www dot LinkedIn dot church and you can sign up to our members podcast, it only costs the price of one coffee per month so it's well worth doing. So why not get a coffee, listen to the podcast and learn something new. We'll see you again for this podcast next week. So bye for now.
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