Chris Bright 0:06
Welcome to the thinking church podcast with me, Chris bright. Every week, I'll be speaking with a church leader about ministry strategy, and getting to grips with not just what they do, but the thinking behind why they do it. So without further ado, let's get on with the show. Well, my guest today is Johnny gaita. Johnny is the founder and leader of the Life Church, Austria movement with his wife, Angela, Johnny's passion is to encourage people to dream big and to think of the seemingly impossible, then to take steps towards implementing it, whether that's church planting nationally or internationally, or in the field of business, education, and politics. Johnny, it's so great to have you on the podcast today. Thanks for joining me,
Gianni Gaeta 0:52
this is my pleasure to be with you and to spend some time with you talking about this very important stuff that is very strong in my heart. Anyhow, so thank you.
Chris Bright 1:03
Amazing, amazing. Well, I'd love to get started. I'd love to hear about your story. So how, how you started Life Church? Yeah, tell me that story to kind of run me through from from start to date, and, you know, maybe a short potted history. How did you start Life Church?
Gianni Gaeta 1:23
Well, let me start by saying my accent was probably tell that I'm not, you know, probably British or English speaking. You know, person originally, but I come from the south of Italy. And I am married to a British lady. And so my kids are born in Austria, and my mom is French. So he kind of we are kind of very European. My son in law is from Iran, Iran. And so we, that's the background, but I basically studied theology in England, south of London. And that's where I met Angela, she was also studying there. And I'm saying this because it's important in the spirit of a pioneer person. Angela came to the Bible school. With a call to go to Austria, she was a teenager in Austria, and she got really a strong feeling she should go back. She gave up everything Korea in England, was accepted from the Assemblies of God in England as a missionary candidate, they asked her to do a theological training. That's why she was in this Bible school where I was. And when, when we were aware, we are feeling for each other when the the, the, you know, the subject was like, could we imagine spending life together? She basically Angela said to me, Look, there is only a future for us, if you go to ask me because there is only Angela and Austria, or no Angela, really. And so this is really part of the spirit that is was in Angela by using us as a couple, this pioneer spirit, whatever it takes, and then it's a longer story. But then I realised actually through Angela, God was calling me to also go to Austria because I was planning. I had plans to go back to Italy and work there in Christian TV stations and stuff. But then that's how we came then to decide to come to Austria and then basically we were accepted as missionary candidates to go to Austria. We did then move to Austria, about 35 years ago. And as we came we did not think we were what we are today, we thought we were gonna go to Austria to help other people. If I can say we were like number two, you know, we were supporters of people who were starting church. In fact, we moved into a town where there was already a missionary planting a church, and we thought we're going to spend our life there, you know, like supporting them. I am a musician, or I was even more in those days I was music worship Angela with other Ministry of Health and stuff. But then he came it became evident to us that we should actually go somewhere in Austria and try and plant a church where there was no church, we found ourselves in a nation where there was so little, you know, when we came there was about 2000 born again believers. This would this was sources of missionary sir in research in Europe and they were staying in Australia was one of the neediest nation nations in Europe. So really, you could choose pick and choose wherever you wanted to go. There was many places with no church. So first of all, we move you to a play to a town where we spent most of our time learning German and then we moved to another town when there was no church at all, about 40,000 people living there. And we started basically, in our apartment, not knowing anyone, really from from zero, that there was no church transfer growth and stuff. So we really had to do it by leading one person to the next, you know, step by step one person after another. And that's what happened, you know, really, and we, we had connection with other believers in Austria who really came alongside us. And we started planting, you know, the first church. But I remember when our first child was born, we have Andrew and I have three children grown up now. The question was for Angela, whether she shouldn't go back to England to give birth, you know, to be were friends and relatives and families, because where we were living, we knew no one yet. And so And God spoke to her and said, If you are in our stay in Austria and give birth, natural birth, without the will be spiritual birth. And it was exactly at that time, when Angela was still in the hospital, I went to a larger town in Austria to help somebody else to church plant, and I was doing worship. And there I met a young lady who was from the town where we were living in Leoben. And she was living in this other place in grass. And then she asked me what we were doing, and she was praying for a church in Louisville. But when a mom and dad live, to cut a long story short, she introduced us to our parents, they became the first believers of our church. And we baptise her this young lady who was a Catholic, charismatic believer, but did not know much about water baptism, we baptise her in our bathtub. And, and then she introduced us to her mom and dad, we started a little, a little life group in our apartment on the eighth floor of a high rise block. And that's really, in short, our story how we then came to Australia, one thing led to another as we were in Leoben, which is kind of a town in the right in the centre of Austria. As we were there, a group of people in the south of Austria who were gathering regularly, it was a fruit of the Christian businessmen association that was working there, there was this little group that pray together every week, and they wanted to really become a local church. So they got in touch with me. And they said, Johnny, could you come and help us to transition from a prayer group to become a church. So I agreed to that. So I used to, almost every week travel from Leoben, two and a half hours drive to clog and forth. And I started basically planting to church at the same time, one in labour, and then one in clog up for to raise the young man to become the leader there. And this led to one thing led to another and then as we were there, there was a baker, who are the few, you know, chain of Baker shops in their area in the south of Austria. He became a believer in joined the grouping clogging foot. But he was from another town not far. And he kept on saying, When do we start a church in my town. And so basically, he, he persisted and prayed, and one day Andrew and I felt, it's the time now to start there. And so then it became evident to us that there is a pattern there, we not only we were called to plant one church, or actually to plant more than one church. And as as we went along, we discovered really what we were here for. But just maybe it's an encouragement to somebody at the beginning, we didn't see the whole picture, we were available. But then God unpacked us some parks, the calling yard for our lives, and we discovered as we went along, and so that's why then we became church planter. But we didn't go to Austin thinking we're going to church plant in the whole of the nation, we we saw ourselves as helpers. Really.
Chris Bright 9:17
It's amazing when you know, you think you go to someone with one idea. And then God's obviously got a completely different idea of what your job is to do. And even the thought of just you know, going and starting work in a different culture. How long did it take you to adjust and adapt to that culture? Obviously, you weren't you didn't speak any German as you said and Angela's English didn't speak much German. How was that was that was our culture shock. What was that like?
Gianni Gaeta 9:44
Well, the first culture shock I got when I came to England as a southern Italian, I must say, I was I was already in training in in, in being in different cultures that married somebody who was not him from the same culture as where I came from. Although it's all Europe, but it's amazing how many differences there are. So going to Austria for me was, the language was a big thing. Because for both of us, Angela and myself, I grew up with French and Italian. I learned English, but still German was a whole different ballgame for me. And for Angela also. So it was a, it was the language was very challenging at the beginning. You know, when even when I started preaching, I did it with the translation I preached in English and somebody translated me. But we spent a lot of time learning the language because we did not, we did not see ourselves as missionaries. One day we go back home, for us, Australia was home. And you know, we really wanted to invest in Australians. And we wanted to become as much Austrians as possible. And, and so we really, we really took a dive into everything I remember, we used to compare things between with Australian, Australian Italy and stuff in one day, we felt really God said to stop comparing, just get on with the job. And that's what we did we really took a dive into the Austrian culture, but it's something that you really have to persistently, you know, go after.
Chris Bright 11:32
Yeah, that's right. What are the differences between what, between maybe the Italian culture and the Austrian coach? I know, you know, you border each other, but I'm guessing there's a difference in culture? What what are those? What you know, how the Austrians do things differently from Italians? Yeah,
Gianni Gaeta 11:48
for example, an Italian would start something just do it. And Austrian would think how to do it is well organised? Do we have everything he takes? May there be any problem doing it? All of that comes first year? And while Italian would say no, no, we start and then we find out what we need we we make our mistakes doesn't matter. We will deal with the stuff as we go. And example. You know, maybe Italians will be people who tell you what they think much quicker than an Austrian who keep it to himself or to herself. You discover in the time what what happened or the what, you know what people thought and stuff, you really need to work very hard to find out what is in people, Italian seem to be more explosive, you know, you might have an argument very quickly next day is forgotten as if nothing happened. You know, like, it's a bit like the weather in Italy, you know, we have also found the storms, but they last about half an hour to the sunshine. And, and it's so for example, one of the things it's is this and I guess temperament also, but maybe I can add something to this. As I was thinking about it a few years ago I was I was praying and talking to God and I was saying Lord, why did you get an Italian when you get an English a young lady from Cornwall, you know, she was from a farming context she never left really. She didn't have a passport, my wife when when when she went to Bible school and went to Australia to get apart. So she we were both from very unlikely people to be here. And then I remember what how God said to me, Johnny, I needed one who is an Italian I need that one. Like somebody like like Angela, I needed you is not just the job that is important, but also you doing the job, because the whole package is not going church plant in Austria, but I want it to be done in a way that reflects also partially your culture for example, food and eating together and being together for an Italian is very important. Now in Austria, that's not that's not so important. That's let's get to the point. Let's do the meeting. Let's do that and let's work hard and which is also very, very, very good. But that is not that kind of a let's do life together invite you to my house and stuff you know and so, Life Church as it is now is very, very influenced by the way I am as a person, very relational because I am a relational person Italians are relational you know, it like in general and and so that's what you know, eating together, spending time together. You know, when I have leaders In my home, we eat there is food there is no we sit on the table with our laptop and we work that is that also. But we are more relational. And this comes out of who I am. And I believe that in really we are part of what we do is who we are. And so I am a musician and the Life Church Movement is very musical, we produce a lot of music, we produce, we wrote a lot of worship songs for the German speaking world, and we attract this kind of people and but it comes many things come out of who I am, and who we are as a couple.
Chris Bright 15:39
I think that's really fascinating, because I think that's right, that, you know, the senior leader is so important in terms of replicating the culture of a church, and it's got to be something that is if you know, if you can't live it out, then you can never expect anyone else to, to live it out. And so I think that you're right it like God telling you to kind of create a, you know, to do things and bring yourself to it. And I think that's really interesting as well, when you think about target market, I was talking to you just before we we clicked record, that I'm doing some work with target market things. And, you know, we're trying to reach a group of people essentially, and you can extrapolate that, you know, we've got that in there, in your context, where it's in Italian going to Austria, but you could have it in a town, you know, where your culture, you've grown up with maybe your call to a different culture within your own town. And you've got to understand that culture, which I think you've spent a lot of time you know, trying to understand it, but there's also part of it, where who you are, is going to be bring things because not every culture has got everything, you know, it's not a perfect culture, there's no such thing as a perfect culture. And that's what you bring to it will bring something new, maybe something of the kingdom something, you know, there's something of of that, that you'll bring like, like your, your Italian nurse brought, it's brought something to Austria. And it's actually enriched it and it's actually shaped how you are as a church. Yes. How did that's a good question to think about it is? How did Austrians take to that, you know, you got, you know, then maybe they used to kind of like lace a planning and you're a bit more spontaneous. How did they take to that did that take a while for that to kind of feel normal?
Gianni Gaeta 17:16
I must say that I had to, no, it was like, if we were two opposites, I have to come some other way. And people who work with me how to come some of the way because I realised that I had to also change in some approaches, I was very impulsive. And I realised that if I want to work with teams, and I work with multiple teams, I needed to have a pace and a way to work that could accommodate other people joining I'm not changing totally the way people are but going a little bit. And so So I would be much more reflected, I would reflect more I would think a little bit more, I would think more in longevity of a vision of a project is sustainable and stuff like that. So I I also learned a lot of stuff and changed in many ways. No, now I'm planting a church in Italy and I'm realising how, how sometimes I get irritated by some pure impulsiveness and, and, and lack of lack of thinking things through a little bit more before, you know, we actually go ahead with it. And so it was like, both both things. But you know, I realised that in Austria, many people liked, like, the way I am they like you know, that's why many go to Italy on holiday because they said, that's so cool the culture, but and they just needed somebody to say, Guys, we really need to, we need to change that we need to become way more, we need to open our privacy, our private homes, to other people invite people to your home, and open yourself up. And so people have to learn because we talking about culture, I soon realised a few years after we came to Austin, the God was not looking to a culture. He would didn't want to just influence the Austrian culture to make a little bit more adaptable to the kingdom but actually wanted me to start the kingdom culture, which is not Italian is not British, not American, but is the culture where God feels at home. I remember when I when I came to England, the beginning from an Italian culture, southern Italian culture. I had real struggle to adapt to the culture to the food culture to the way to do things and, and I remember one day I was in the chapel of the bible school and I said, God, I just I'm struggling here. I want to do these two years as fast as I can Ain't no and I just keep my head down my head low and then get get getting done with you know, because I was struggling and and I just didn't feel feel I could be myself in my jokes were misunderstood and, and actually I just didn't feel well I remember years after when I was in in Austria then as a missionary and and I was praying a lot about thinking about church, how can church become something that is powerful and and in the middle of this thinking God said to me, reminded me of how I felt when I was in England. And then he said to me these words, which I was shocked, really was really, it was not an audible voice, but he was so strong, he came out of nowhere and he said, Johnny, that's how I feel in your church. I thought what he said, Yeah, that's how I feel in Yorkshire. Actually, I heard these words, your church. And I, that began a process in me, where I realised that we need to have a culture in which God feels at home. And whatever it is that Austrians need to change, we need to change whatever it is Italians need to change, we need to change it because God cannot be God in a context in which for example, in Austria, when you bring a visionary project, the reaction is usually Yeah. Let's see, let's see what happens. You know, God doesn't think see what happens. And God says, No, when I say something is gonna happen, you know, you don't have the attitude. Let's see what happens. No, no, you put faith into it and you believe it's going to work the faith field and positive. That not Austria, that's, you know, many other things I realised God said you you need to change that, that we have a culture in Austria also of complaining, a Viennese people complain a lot. And God I was I realised God doesn't feel at home in a complaining culture. You know, Israel died in the lead. That's it because they complained all the time. And, and I realised, Oh mine, we have to change. We have to change into a culture in which God Islam and then we became really my main focus to find out through the word of God, what is God's culture? How what is the culture where if, for example, children in Italy, are viewed as something that is part of society, children, babies, children are not something you put to bed at seven o'clock, they are part of the family, they are viewed as important the noise they make is not just tolerated, but is actually seen as something normal. Now in Austria, children, they shouldn't they should be there but not be heard. You know, they are resolved because the parents are here. That's what the children are here. And God showed to me, Johnny, I don't like this culture in my house, the children are just small members, but they are not less members. They need to be spoken to greeted. They need to be have the space to move in. Like Jesus said, Let the children come to me don't hinder them. And I realise the culture we have in Austria, we hinder children by always telling them to be quiet and to put them away and stuff. So obviously, I know children, babies are smoking and go to bed early in the evening and stuff what I'm trying to say, I realised there was a culture there. That is not let's bring an Italian culture in Austria, but it was like, How does God feel about next generation? You know, do we just have a kid's church to get them out of the way so that the grown up can do something? Or are they as much part of the church in our mentality and we welcome them we welcome their noise, you know. So this is an example that where actually I realised the question is not how can we adapt? But the question is, what culture will do we need to have well, God feasible. And obviously, I realised that what God feels at home people photo is a is a direct result.
Chris Bright 24:20
Well, thank you so much for listening to this week's podcast. This is only halfway through the podcast, and you can listen to the conversation by joining our members podcast, just go to our website, www dot thinking dot church and you can sign up to our members podcast that it only costs the price of one coffee per month, so it's well worth doing. So why not get a coffee, listen to the podcast and learn something new. We'll see you again for this podcast next week. So bye for now.
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